Higurashi no Nakasekata Part 4

Overview

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Higurashi no Nakasekata Part 4
Toratsu 106 cover
Release Date	February 25, 2006

Higurashi no Nakasekata Part 4 is the fourth interview in the Higurashi no Nakasekata interview series. The interview occurred on January 2006 and was first published in Toratsu's 106th issue, the March 2006 issue which released on February 25, 2006. The interview was republished on Toranoana's website in 2006, and then republished on Seikaisha's Higurashi light novel website on October 4, 2011 featuring additional notes from KEIYA. The Seikaisha version of the interview may be found here.

English translation is by rockmor.

Transcript

Participants:

• Ryukishi07 (leader of 07th Expansion, scenario writer)
• Yatazakura (script)
• BT (homepage administration)

— To start with an obligatory question, how was Comiket 69?

Ryukishi: Last time the interview began the same way *laughs*

— There was also a TV show on NHK right before.

Ryukishi: They suddenly came to me with a request to do a show, and it was the last minute of production so I didn’t have the energy to say no *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: They asked me at the last minute so without having time to think I said “yes”, but it was a valuable experience. I thought the author should talk with his work and not in public, but I was also frustrated that people may think that I am doing something suspicious in shadows, so it was like angrily saying “I am not doing anything suspicious. I am ready to show up” *laughs* Sorry for being embarrassing.

— It’s not very often that doujin creators get to be featured in media in this way.

Ryukishi: Everyone was extremely tired before mastering, and even smiling in natural way was difficult *laughs*

— Was there any talk about TV at the event?

Ryukishi: Whenever someone said, “I saw it”, I said, “Don’t watch it~” *laughs* It’s one of those memories that I’m too embarrassed to remember and wish I could forget.

— I saw on the official website that it was also busy at your booth at the Comiket.

Ryukishi: We had a very large number of people come again, and while we were deciding whether to wait for noon or not, everything was sold out. It is always difficult to decide how much copies to bring… I thought that because stores like Tora no Ana have made advance reservations, our line won’t get too long, but we’ve still had so many people come. We wanted to bring enough copies so that we could give them to every customer who was standing in line from the very beginning, but it’s really difficult to estimate the right number. In addition, I really wanted to hand them to each guest personally one by one, laughing and chatting with them about their opinions, but unfortunately, it wasn’t possible due to the availability of personnel.

— There is a “Where did you encounter with Higurashi?” thread on the forum, and while looking through it, I was wondering if the customers are also changing.

Everyone: Ahh~.

BT: It’s an old thread.

Ryukishi: Back then, when we were really unknown, our average on the website counter was about 80 visitors a day.

BT: Even less than that.

Ryukishi: I remember opening it one day and seeing that it suddenly went to about 120, and I was like “Hyah-hoy!”… We’ve had more than a few visitors since then, and I wondered where those visitors came from.

BT: That thread had both old-timers and newcomers, and the really old customers were people who came after events but recently people began to come thanks to the manga adaptation. A lot of people say about that.

Ryukishi: People who learned about the game through Comiket became fewer. A lot of customers still say it was recommended by their friends who go to Comiket, but the difference from the past is that some of them bought it not because they fell for a sales pitch but because it was praised so much by other people *laughs*

Yatazakura: That’s true…

Ryukishi: Previously, when a customer approached, it was like selling a car. Now, people can buy a Drama CD because they like a particular voice actor. Among them, there are those who become interested after listening to a Drama CD, or reading a magazine or manga, or through other media, so they decide to buy a game as well. Sometimes we are asked, is there a way to buy it at Comiket because they want to get the next chapter a little bit sooner *laughs* Yes, it’s an eternal theme.

*Everyone laughs*

— It’s a deep and difficult problem *laughs* Maybe the more you know, the less you can answer immediately.

Ryukishi: Up until now, Higurashi has been just one work in the wide world of doujin, but recently, thanks to the various media it has been published in, I think there are more and more fans who have no connection to Comiket or the doujin world. How’s that for Tora no Ana, though?

— Hmmm. Before, when I was looking at various news sites and some specific blogs, they were accepting pre-orders and increasing the number of discs in stores, but recently I’ve been seeing a lot of general public giving their impressions and thoughts on the work.

Ryukishi: Initially we were bound to Comiket, but nowadays we’ve been able to get out and get people outside Comiket interested in it. And you see that on the blogs. Also, there are still many people who are not connected to the Internet and can’t get information. In that sense, there is a very wide range of ages and genders, and it’s hard to get a sense of the customer base or trends. So the impressions we receive are very different, and there are people from all positions and ages. For example, we’ve received some strong opinions about how Satoko was treated from someone who saw the whole situation as a father.

— With the anime starting in April, how do you think the number of new fans will increase?

Ryukishi: I think that TV is a medium that has lower barriers and is an easier entry point, so I would be happy if those who have heard the name but have never touched it could casually watch it on TV. I’m participating in this project as a supervisor, and I want this to be a work that doesn’t leave first-time viewers behind. I just really hope that it would be the case. However, I know that making animation is not an easy task, so I’m just giving advice from the side, like “Do this and that”.

— The cast has just been announced on the official website.

Ryukishi: We’ve been working on it for a loooong time, and now finally we can show it to you. Until then, we had been working on scripts and other materials that were difficult to show, but we don’t have much time left until April, so… *bitter laugh* We are currently working on it at a rapid pace.

— I’m going to go back and forth, but I had the opportunity to read the novel “Kaidan to Odorou, Soshite Anata wa Kaidan de Odoru” which was written for “Faust No. 6 “SIDE-A” and “SIDE-B”.

Ryukishi: Ahh, that’s embarrassing *laughs*

— I felt that it was a very Ryukishi-like story, though.

Ryukishi: Hmm, when I was told to write in the style of Ryukishi07, I had no choice but to write as Ryukishi07 *bitter laugh* The person at Kodansha kindly asked me if I would remove the punctuation “.” in the key brackets (「。」), but since that’s the way it is in Higurashi, I asked them to leave it as it is. It’s not a Higurashi side-story, but I think it’s a fun supplemental element for those who know the Higurashi world. It wouldn’t make sense if people who don’t know about Higurashi couldn’t understand it at all, so I tried to make it a story that could be read as a whole, and if people who know about Higurashi read it, there would be room for doubt as to whether it was a story of this or that character or not. My policy is, as is the case with Onisarashi-hen, which is serialized by Comp Ace, those who know the original story would know, and if you don’t know the original, it still will be fun to read. This is what I want to emphasize.

— Thematically, I felt that the atmosphere is very similar.

Ryukishi: I’ve been wanting to write a violent urban legend story in a school setting for a long time, so although it was a tough time for me to write, I decided to do it. I wasn’t sure if it was okay for me to be there since all the other Kodansha writers are all very talented creators, but it was a valuable experience for me, so I am very thankful to Kodansha. Thank you, Kodansha.

*Everyone laughs*

Yatazakura: He said it twice *laughs*

— Do you have any plans for such activities in the future?

Ryukishi: I don’t believe in doing only one thing, so I would like to take on various challenges if I have the chance. I want to test what’s right for me and what’s not. It may not be the best fit for you, but you may find something unexpectedly interesting. That’s why I would like to challenge myself as much as possible when I am given a chance.

— Do you have any plans to further expand Higurashi into other media?

Ryukishi: It’s not a certain thing yet, but I think I’ll be able to talk about a consumer edition a little bit more in the future. I’m not in a position to drop any bombs at the moment, as we are still focusing on making steady progress on the work, like kneading the dough for the bread *bitter laugh*

— Speaking of expanding into other media, I think the comments on the manga version on your website 07th Storming Party are excellent.

BT: Thank you. All of the manga adaptations are great, and there’s something about them that makes me want to write about them. Even though I know the original story and what it’s about, I’m always impressed by how the manga presents it in a different way.

— The day Square Enix’s comics went on sale was amazing, with most customers grabbing three copies and heading for the cash register.

Ryukishi: Thank you very much. I’m actually starting to work on the bonus book for buying all the volumes, and right now I’m putting together the plot and creating mini-scenarios. I’m planning to have the manga artists put their illustrations in it. But it’s just a mini-scenario, not a long one like the one in Faust *laughs* It will be something like a simple Higurashi spin-off.

— I am looking forward to it.

Ryukishi: After we enter Kai, it’s not about solving the mystery anymore, but about fighting to prevent the tragedy. No more doubt and fear. Fellowship is solidarity. If you’ve just bought the first volume, you’re probably still in a state of doubt and anxiety. If you believe, you will be rewarded. If you don’t believe, you will go crazy. If anything, you will enjoy that worldview. I’m writing the new story with the intention of making it like a sub-scenario of the first part of Higurashi… I’m sorry if this turns out to be a completely different story *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: Lately I’ve been wondering if it’s better not to make any announcements. The end product may turn out very different *laughs*

— So, it is possible for the direction to change while you in the middle of writing?

Ryukishi: It is. It’s not uncommon for characters to start running wild and making the story more interesting on their own. It’s fun when it’s under control, but sometimes it gets too out of control and you can’t come back. “That’s not the story I wanted to write…”, something like that *laughs* In Watanagashi-hen, Shion was so out of control that I couldn’t turn back after that. Akasaka was a character who was also somewhat out of control. In the early days of a character’s life, it’s easy for them to go astray because they don’t have a set route yet. It’s like riding a bicycle without training wheels. The main characters all have distinct personalities, so I can see them clearly, but Akasaka only first appeared in Himatsubushi-hen, so he was still like a tottering infant, and I wandered off-course and ended up with a lot of discarded drafts. Near the end of the main part of Himatsubushi-hen, the phone line is cut and it’s the next day that Akasaka learns of his wife’s death, but in the beginning of the production, the phone line was connected and there was a scene where Akasaka is drunk in a phone booth full of empty beer cans and Rika appears and says, “I told you to go home,” looking down at him, but something felt awkward when I wrote that part. “Where did I go wrong…? Ah, let’s cut the phone line”. I had to rewind a story quite a bit.

Yatazakura: I was like “Hmm, something is different” when you brought the scenario.

Ryukishi: That was the biggest change. In Watanagashi-hen, Mion pretended to be Shion and approached Keiichi, which was a romantic comedy-like plot, but it turned out to be quite fun, and I thought it was just like Ra*ma 1/2 *laughs*

— And it will continue to spread in various ways in the future.

Ryukishi: I think so. As for me, I’m very grateful for the opportunity to be featured in the comics and in the interviews, and the idea of an anime adaptation is really something I can’t wait for.

— In recent years, there were released not only AVGs (adventure games) based on choices, but also AVG novels. Of course, there have been many such works in the past, but I think Higurashi no Naku Koro ni has left a significant mark in establishing this method.

Ryukishi: Ehh? Did the choice based games disappear?

Yatazakura: Come to think of it, I’m starting to see it in download-only games as well.

Ryukishi: Hmm. I didn’t know about that, but if it’s true, that’s great. I was really struggling with what to do with choices in the early days of Higurashi. But if I were to create a world of choice “IF”, I would simply want to make a new story *bitter laugh* In fact, I had planned to add choices after Onikakushi-hen was finished, and to present an updated version with choices at the Winter Comiket that year. But then I thought that if I had that kind of time, I would better write the next scenario, so I switched to writing Watanagashi-hen. Once I got to that point, I kind of got over it and thought, “I’ll just put them in when it’s finished”. I started receiving fan letters around the time we released Tatarigoroshi-hen, and from then on, when I was asked, “Will there be choices when the game is finished?” I began to answer “No, it’s our style” *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: Until that happened, I couldn’t break the out of the curse of having to add choices someday.

Yatazakura: We were even thinking about making a patch that would add choices.

— Now, it feels like it’s a given that there are no choices, but you were actually considering adding them.

Ryukishi: Ever since Onikakushi-hen, one out of every three questions we received was about whether there will be choices when the game is finished. Nowadays, people say, “It’s more like Higurashi if there are no choices,” but in the beginning, it was the opposite. There is a part of me that wonders if the environment has changed somewhere along the way. I think novel games allow for a very wide range of expression, and that’s why I think there should be many more flexible ways to express yourself. For example, you could add an option to turn the choices on/off, or, though it might be difficult to implement, it could be a novel + action, or a fighting game + novel like a certain famous work. If you look at that game as a novel plus a dramatic element, or as a fighting game to reinforce the drama, I think it has a different scope. Even in commercial productions, they’ve already gone many steps ahead in trying to create some unique expressions. The more I look at such things, the more I feel that there is no barrier between movies and sound novels. If we take film as the pinnacle of visual entertainment, then we can say that novel games may one day reach it if they will keep climbing. But considering the amount of work I can do as a doujin creator, I can only reach half of that point, so I think my work is limited to what I personally can do. I’m sure that those who play novel games, not just Higurashi, recreate cinematic scenes in their minds by combining music, text, backgrounds and characters. There may be a barrier between books and movies, but I think that novel games could be a bridge between them. That’s why I believe it’s an ultimate genre because it’s so extremely simple.

— The fact that you can make it solo may also be attractive.

Ryukishi: That’s right. Yatazakura-san is not a born programmer when it comes to scripting, right?

Yatazakura: Of course. I started from scratch.

Ryukishi: BT, you had a little background in VisualBasic, right? So you can apply it quickly.

BT: Now that we have great tools like NScripter, Kirikiri, etc., it’s really easy to do the job.

— I got the impression that the script direction changed a lot since you started working on Higurashi Kai.

Yatazakura: I myself have always wanted to try a different approach from the one I used before. Since novels are originally not meant to have intense movements, I’m trying to express the atmosphere in some way. I’m trying to break the mold of what a novel is supposed to be.

— I see. How do you specify the direction?

Ryuskishi: Sometimes I make a very specific request for what kind of direction I want to see, and other times I don’t ask for anything at all. Some were created by Yatazakura-san, and some specified in detail by me. It varies. I think the first time we had something that looked like direction was probably in Tatarigoroshi-hen. I think the first times I made any instructions for the direction were scenes like when Keiichi kills Satoko’s uncle, or when Akasaka is taken around Hinamizawa by Rika in Himatsubushi-hen. I asked to create an impression of Akasaka going around the village. At that time, we started to use screen transitions to show the time, rather than dialogue. Since then, we’ve used it many times for showing that time has passed. He also did a great job of adding various effects, such as the red color getting stronger and stronger depending on Rena’s mental state in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, and the effect when they fight on the roof.

Yatazakura: I’d get instructions like these, and I’d say, “OK, I’ll do it!”

Ryukishi: During the cleanup process, we would change it so that it would be perfect, and if it was too much, we would cut it down. In rare cases, the effects don’t fit at all, and I ask to delete everything from here to here. There were also times when we decided to leave something out because the sound didn’t fit the scene. We rarely do this these days, but in the past we both had different sensibilities, so we had to fix a lot of things. Now we are much more in tune with each other, and if I ask for a screen change or a blackout, it can be done instantly. So now he does most of the directing, which makes it much easier for me.

Yatazakura: There have been very few cases when revisions were needed lately.

Ryukishi: There are some related to daily life, but they are mostly gone now.

— So you understand each other perfectly now.

Ryukishi: After all, we’ve been doing this for four and a half years. We’ve come to be able to understand what each other wants.

Yatazakura: That’s right.

Ryukishi: I’m sure BT-san is managing well too.

BT: I wonder *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

— BT-san, what are you doing during the cleanup?

Ryukishi: He made a whole new system for the Music Room, and it’s very elaborate. He also checks for typos and errors. I thought there would be fewer of them this time than usual, but when BT-san looks for them, he can find a lot. Even after all that, we still find them after the release.

BT: Yeah, the work continues even after that.

Ryukishi: You can see why commercial companies are building bigger teams just for proofreading and debugging. It’s hard for the creators to see the bugs, or to avoid dangerous operations, so they unconsciously avoid them. In a way, since Yatazakura-san and I are in the core of the production, BT-san is looking at us calmly. However, he does more than that, he manages the homepage on a daily basis. As a circle, we have two very busy periods a year, but his battle continues every day. In a way, work is much more about keeping up with the day-to-day than it is about dealing with emergencies, so I think he is doing a really great job.

— So, on a different topic, what is the significance of the choice system you made for the seventh arc?

Ryukishi: Ah, the so-called Rika’s world. The first time we added choices was a long time ago, I think it was about the blue box/red box.

— Ah, sorry about that.

Ryukishi: No, it’s alright. As I think I said back then, choices can only be made when you know the outcome of both, so you have room to choose. If we didn’t know the results of both, there would be no room to choose one or the other, and we would have to choose according to certain predetermined laws. If you have to choose between a small basket and a big basket, you can remember the fairy-tale and decide that the small one is better, so, under conditions where you don’t know what’s inside, you always take the small casket. So, for those who don’t know the outcome, the choice between to advise or not to advise Keiichi about who he should give the doll is certain. But only Rika, who can assume both cases and knows the outcome, can give you the choice called fate. This is Rika’s world. So, for Rika, there is a choice for everything every day. In the midst of all this, she is enduring in a world full of choices: if I do this, I’ll be in Onikakushi-hen, if I don’t stop this, I’ll be in Watanagashi-hen, and if this happens, I’ll be in Himatsubushi-hen. It’s as if for her every day is a gamebook.

— Moreover, we know most of the consequences of the choices.

Ryukishi: That’s right. We are literally saving and loading over and over again so that we don’t make the mistakes we made last time. Some people refer to Rika as a looper, but I personally call it saving and loading *laughs* That’s how she’s been living for over a hundred years, and of course there are choices that are determined by Rika’s will and “coincidences” that are determined by the will of gods. There is an element of luck in that Keiichi may or may not move in and XX may or may not come back. The reason why Rika was so flustered this time was because even with her best efforts, nothing good can come to her unless she is blessed with luck, which is determined by something other than Rika’s efforts. It was because she was tired of the current situation. However, thanks to other people her luck has tilted in a good direction, so she is hoping that she can do better than usual if she works hard.

— Sorry. I thought there was a more light reason.

Ryukishi: Now, either choice is actually OK. In the early stages, I imagined that if you chose to give advice on who Keiichi should give the doll to, the game would proceed, but if you chose the opposite, the game would be over and Watanagashi-hen would begin. But I thought that would not show the heroic nature of Keiichi’s defiance of fate, so I decided to make the outcome the same regardless of which choice you made. I also thought secretly that everyone would probably save and reload there *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: I’m really curious why sound novels don’t have an auto-save function for choices *laughs* It’s the only forced control in sound novels. If you’re wondering why there are so many save slots in sound novels, it’s because everyone saves at the forks *laughs*

— If you’ve played the previous game, you all know what the consequences of that choices mean. According to the law of choice as described by Ryukishi-san you can only choose to give advice.

Ryukishi: That’s right. I think most people would have saved the game, chosen to give advice, then loaded and chose the other option.

— At last, let’s talk about Minagoroshi-hen.

Ryukishi: OK.

— After the opening scene, a new character ■■ suddenly appeared, can you tell us a little bit about them?

Ryukishi: This is significant in 3 ways: first, it’s a first-person narrative from Rika’s point of view, so she needed someone to talk to. Second, there is always someone else who is invisible to the rest of us. Her existence is an expression of the fact that the world that is normal for Rika is a kind of abnormal for other people. The third and most important is that it’s a player’s point of view. The existence of ■■ is somewhat of a proxy for the player in front of the monitor. The enemies in the world of Higurashi are so powerful that they are impossible to defeat. For example, in the Investigation Files, there are things like gunshot holes in the wall and subtle frayings, but it’s not possible to grasp its meaning because it’s being covered up on a scale of △△. That’s only possible to perceive by a special kind of being, the player in front of the monitor. But the player can’t communicate with the characters. That’s why we need a presence that has the same knowledge as the players in front of the monitor.

— When I saw the description of ■■ as Oyashiro-sama, I looked at them and said, “What?!”

Ryukishi: Actually, it’s only now that I can say this, but we were talking about at the Onikakushi-hen All-Cast Review Session: “Is it a human, a curse, or a coincidence?”. This was the catchphrase in the beginning, but the answer is “everything”. The culprit is a human, the curse exists, and things can happen by chance. It’s not that one of them happened, but that all three of them happened at the same time, which is the hidden theme. The only problem with this is that humans do not perceive the existence of curses. And those who put the curse don’t care about humans. In addition, the coincidences that are mixed in complicate the story and make the different human-made and curse-made situations seem like one thing. The phrase “Is it a human, a curse, or a coincidence?” can also be a symbol of the rule X, Y, Z. If you say that anything is possible, then anything is possible.

— The design of ■■ is quite unique.

Ryukishi: For ■■, there were only two things that I had decided on from the beginning. They will have long hair, and since they are called a demon, they should have horns. And the color of their hair was taken from the anthropomorphized Oyashiro-sama (オヤシロタン, Oyashiro-tan) who happened to be popular on a message board.

— In the last interview, you mentioned that the keyword for the next arc would be “Rika-chan is in trouble, falling down to 8th place?!”, so was it because of ■■’s appearance? *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: I wonder what would happen if ■■ was cut out. In fact, Rika’s popularity is slumping now. However, we are at the point when Rika’s popularity could either rise or fall this time. What do you think, BT-san?

BT: I’m sure it will go up.

Ryukishi: Hmmm, maybe Satoko, Shion, Chie, and ■■ would be tough to beat.

Yatazakura: Satoshi as well.

Ryukishi: Yes, it will be chaos.

BT: The last interview was before the third popularity contest, and in the contest before that, Rika was ranked 6th.

Ryukishi: Chie-sensei, who was 7th at the time, was hard to move from that place, and Rika, who was 6th just ended up at 8th. The third popularity contest brought her back, but I think if ■■ will become popular it would be hard to tell anything. More importantly, I don’t know who will be first this time. I have a feeling that Keiichi is finally going to make it.

— Keiichi is getting cooler and cooler with each chapter.

Ryukishi: The main character in a game is usually a player’s alter ego. However, both in movies and games, the protagonist goes from being a player’s alter ego to becoming a hero. Before, Keiichi’s role was to be scared, surprised, and angry together with the players. By behaving in a way that the player expects and by gradually starting to take actions that the player doesn’t expect, he is achieving something. So what used to be a character that followed the player, has turned into a character that leads the player.

— The scene where he convinced ▲▲ really showed his heroic nature.

Ryukishi: That’s the highlight of this chapter. In the end, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is a story about communication. Everything in this world is settled through communication. That’s why the fight scene in the middle of the story was in a way more like a Higurashi fight than the fight on the roof from Tsumihoroboshi-hen. The fight on the roof was more like a game because both sides were on par, whereas this verbal battle was a battle in the sense that you had to defeat the other side and move on. In Tatarigoroshi-hen, Keiichu thought that he has no other way to save Satoko but to kill her uncle in a way that no one would point a finger at him. By the way, when we asked the fans to send us their thoughts on how to save Satoko, there were none. There were a lot of people saying their opinions about Keiichi’s actions, like “I’d do it the same way” or “He should’ve hidden the body better”, but the fundamental problem was that Satoko was unhappy because her uncle came back and took her away. I received almost zero suggestions as to how to solve it successfully. Maybe some of you have solved it elsewhere, but I didn’t see it in the feedback we received. That’s why the first half of Minagoroshi-hen was the true solution to Tatarigoroshi-hen. I was trying to give an answer that if you had fought together with everyone, you would have been able to save Satoko. It seems everyone misunderstood this a little bit, but the first half of the story is the solution, and the second half is the entertainment.

— After all, the dividing line between before and after is the night of the Watanagashi festival.

Ryukishi: That’s right. This is where □□ appeared. I’m not sure if I’m supposed to focus on that, but the solution that encompasses Tatarigoroshi-hen is the way how to save Satoko before the festival. Keiichi and his friends, who have learned how to fight in a true Hinamizawa-like manner over the course of the first half of the chapter, finally learn who their enemy is. In that sense, the second half is the part that is created for entertainment. So the scene in the second half was not meant to reveal the truth, but only to show the appearance of the last boss.

— In that context, what was the significance of Rika, who has become the main character this time?

Ryukishi: Rika is a girl who has lived for 100 years. After experiencing the same life over and over again, she is completely tired and bored. From the player’s point of view, the individual worlds of the story are fresh and new each time, and Rika says things like “nipa” or “mii~” when she sees or hears something new. That’s how it should be. But from Rika’s perspective, it’s just a repetition of what she had seen before. That’s why Rika becomes less and less pure inside. It was quite early in the game when Satoko told her that the prize money was 50,000 yen, and Rika was not surprised. Since she already knows about things that normally should have surprised her, her days are becoming less colorful. Inevitably, Rika who has lived for 100 years and knows all about it has separated from the cute and normal Rika and became Dark Rika.

— It’s true that no matter how interesting a book is, if you’ve read it over and over again, it’s hard to find enjoyment in it. So what’s the difference between Rika, who is still trying to find hope, and ■■, who is negative from the start?

Ryukishi: It’s a contrast, isn’t it? Rika never gives up hope. Even if she were to die and repeat the process, she wouldn’t be depressed about it. But you may have noticed that to refuse to accept Rika’s loops, save and reload process, is the most frightening thing for ■■. Like Rika said, in order to go back in time, there must not only be ■■’s but also Rika’s approval. They can’t go back unless they both agree to it. ■■ can’t communicate with anyone but Rika. That’s why for ■■ life without Rika is unbearable. Even if it is painful for Rika to repeat her life, ■■ knows the pain of the days without Rika, so as long as Rika is there, they are willing to repeat over and over again. That’s the difference in values between ■■ and Rika. If you think about it that way, a free being like ■■ could have walked around at will and searched for the culprit, but then why does ■■ not know anything and keep telling Rika to give up and that there will be another time… But we are stepping on the next chapter’s territory now *bitter laugh*

— So, let’s look at it from a different perspective. You’ve said that this time a familiar face of ○○ has appeared yet again. What did you mean by that?

Ryukishi: As was said in the novel, the meaning of ○○’s appearance makes clear that the existence of just one hero can’t solve this story. In a sense, it’s naive to think that because ○○ has appeared everything will be OK. It’s the ultimate in other people’s power to solve the problem because that person is here. That’s being overly reliant on other people.

— In fact, when I was reading, I felt relieved and wondered if I could rely on that person.

Ryukishi: But that idea contradicts the values of this story, which is that we can only overcome hardles through communication and unity. That’s why that world denies the existence of ○○ and the idea that a single hero can save the day. And, as if denying the players’ hope that Satoko will be saved thanks to ○○’s appearance, that person immediately goes to the hot springs *laughs*

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: Maybe that’s because the story about the hot springs was fun, but after that, they became a sort of a meme. They will appear in the next chapter as well, so this time I introduced them so next time people won’t ask “Who’s that?”.

— Let’s talk about the second part, the entertainment part. Finally, with this work, you’ve reached 70, 80, 90% of the solution, and Kai is coming to an end, but did you have any hesitation or doubts when telling your story?

Ryukishi: It’s still the part of the story that I don’t want to share with the public, because there’s not much room for enjoyment left in it. I really want people to have fun saying, “This is what I think, even though this is what the original says” but after all when the original says, “This is how it is” it kills all the different possibilities that the readers were creating by thinking and making theories. That’s why I really didn’t want to release it. But I had to write it in order to finish the story, so it was like a painful confession. I’ve answered this in other interviews, but I personally don’t like horror stories that just throw in the latest gadgets and don’t prepare any answers from the start. If you aren’t going to reveal anything in the end, you can write about anything you want. I decided that I would reveal the truth no matter what the reaction was, so I used the crazy gadgets and wrote the absurd story. Also, as entertainment, more than anything else this chapter needed to have a visible enemy.

— And who is that enemy?

Ryukishi: As you know, the biggest enemy in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is not the individual, but ◆◆. That’s why you can’t resolve things with violence. For example, the problem of the Houjou family, which is resolved in this chapter. The whole village’s belief that “I don’t hate them, but the head family hates them” spawns discrimination. The enemy is ◆◆. That’s why we defeated ◆◆ by defeating the old men representing the village in an argument. When we fight against ◆◆, we can’t win unless we overcome the people who embody ◆◆. In this sense, although □□ is an easily understandable manifestation of an enemy to be confronted, the heart of the battle is not a struggle against □□. That’s all I can tell you now.

Yatazakura: Like the dam construction manager during the Dam War?

Ryukishi: That’s right. It’s not about dam construction, isn’t it? It’s about a concept and an action. But the demonstrators were barging into the construction office and attacking the dam construction manager, right? I guess you could say that the dam construction manager is □□. The dam construction manager does not work on the dam alone but is merely the supervisor of that act of dam construction. However, because he is a symbol of the act, he became the main target. □□ is just a symbol of the system that created this tragedy. This is not to say that □□ is a bad person, or that if they weren’t in this village, this incident wouldn’t have happened.

— Although □□ got a lot of attention for that outfit.

Ryukishi: That’s because I wanted to give □□ an easy-to-understand visual as the last boss, and for □□, it’s the most important day of their life. So I guess it’s my personal policy that I wanted them to wear the best outfit. Actually, I’d like to write the scene where □□ goes to buy those clothes next time. Though I’m still working on the plot, so I may not write it *bitter laugh*

— So what is organization XX that came up among the keywords this time?

Ryukishi: XX is not some evil secret organization that you may have imagined. I wanted to portray it as an extension of factional society, but perhaps it was too difficult to convey. When people think of secret societies, they seem to have an image of an evil group that conducts secret rituals and if they don’t go along with the Führer’s will, they are thrown into a pit and terminated. If you are a university graduate, you probably know that universities have academic cliques. It’s more like that. In addition, those extremely competent people who are able to pass the difficult national certification exams form groups with large horizontal cohesion. It’s a group that exists purely within the organization, whether it’s a town, a village, a company, or a school. Among them, there are many gerontocracy organizations that actually exist in Japan today, such as the club of the upper class, which is run by very influential people who have made so much money that they can financially support young researchers and people in various fields in order to contribute to society. The original image of XX is that it is a collection of several such clubs.

— I’d love to see that mentioned in the next TIPS section.

Ryukishi: Yes. I’d like to think about it.

— Perhaps the word “secret organization” itself has become too dark an image.

Ryukishi: Hmmm… it is true that in Japan, the word seems to be imbued with too much of a villainous image because of movies. But there are many secret societies around us… For example…

(In a hesitant manner, he begins to talk about cliques and organizations in Akihabara)

— We can’t write about this!! *laughs*

Ryukishi: But, as I keep saying, it’s really close to home. I just happened to use some of it as an example, but no matter what field it is, if a group of people with a certain level of reputation and position get together, and the aspects of that group are not leaked to the outside world, then it is a secret meeting, and if those people form an organization, isn’t that what we can call a secret society?

— So is the name XX itself a symbol?

Ryukishi: Yes. It’s hard to understand a secret group of wealthy people, so that’s why I gave them the tentative name XX.

— From now it will be questions about the keywords. I’d like to ask you about ●●●●●●. In the previous work, the parasite theory was denied, but it actually pretty close to the truth.

Ryukishi: Yes. It’s as close to the truth as you can get.

— It just has been hidden among other crazy things.

Ryukishi: I used it as misdirection. At that point, I didn’t want readers to believe in it yet. However, it would have been too long to start explaining it in Minagoroshi-hen, so I just let the information flow in Tsumihoroboshi-hen.

— After finishing Minagoroshi-hen, I wondered if ●●●●●● was really a thing.

(Ryukishi, Yatazakura and BT grin at each other)

— Ohhhh. Nevermind.

Ryukishi: That’s pretty fun to talk about *laughs* In fact, some people believe that ●●●●●● doesn’t exist, and that others are delusional because they think it does. The only thing I can say is that ●●●●●● is just a plausible name someone gave to one of the rules XYZ of this village in a medical style. But whether there really is a ●●●●●● or not is left to individual interpretation. After all, if ●●●●●● really exists, it’s a very mental thing, isn’t it? I can’t say anything, because it’s difficult to distinguish mental things. However, as Shion uncovered long ago in Meakashi-hen, there is a belief in this village that on the night of Watanagashi Festival, it’s normal for one person to die and for one person to disappear because of Oyashiro-sama’s curse. Shion sees that this assumption continues to result in murder and tragedy. That’s what Shion called the Curse system, but you could call it ●●●●●● in medical terms. For example, everyone here knows about “Sazae-san syndrome” and that Sazae-san is always airing on Sundays evenings. So when you see it, you can’t help but sigh and think, “Tomorrow is Monday, I have to go to work again”. But it’s not like Sazae-san is toxic, right? It’s a normal, popular, long-living anime. As in this case, ●●●●●● is a socio-psychological disease that acts on the unconscious mind. In Higurashi, ●●●●●● is something that is thought of as being caused by a mental pathogen, which may or may not be true. So, just as □□ is a shadow cast by one of the rules, ●●●●●● is just a shadow cast by another rule.

— I’m confused myself. So, does □□ believe in the existence of ●●●●●●?

Ryukishi: I think □□ probably believes in it? That’s why they wrote down about its existence in their scrapbook and had to … Hinamizawa in 48 hours. □□ is in a position that reinforces rather than denies the existence of ●●●●●●. In response to this, Keiichi suggests that ●●●●●● is just an assumption and can be defeated with trust and communication. Keiichi and his friends are united against □□, who is trying to create a tragedy alone. If, thanks to some miracle, the helpless villagers were able to turn it over to an organization of such enormous scale that you will never be able to catch its tail… It’s amazing, isn’t it? I’m trying to figure out how to make it work now *bitter laugh*

— Now, the latest chapter was meant to be “a very frustrating story”. However, it was also a work of hope that finally showed the way to the end. So can you tell us again the next chapter, Matsuribayashi-hen?

Ryukishi: What was the keyword last time?

— “Rika-chan is in trouble, falling down to 8th place?!” was scrapped (*laugh*), so in the end we stopped at “An Answer Arc you’ve waited for”.

Ryukishi: Right. Not an answer to the story, but an answer arc that everyone is waiting for. The next one, huh? Any ideas?

Yatazakura: I can only say that it’s finally coming to an end… There’s a word I really want to use, but it would be a spoiler.

— I’d like to ask about the outline for the next chapter. If the previous solutions were in some way the answers to the first three chapters, the eighth part is simply…

Ryukishi: Yes. It doesn’t have a counterpoint chapter. It’s going to be a new story. Kai that we’ve been working on so far is the other side of the first part that has “fixed” the previous chapters. Meakashi-hen is simply the story of “what happened to Shion back then”. In Tsumihoroboshi-hen, the point of view cast changes from Keiichi and Rena, and they switch their roles of bystander and the main character. In Minagoroshi-hen, there is a difference in the action, “what if this is how it was done then”. And the next chapter can’t make a pair with any other one. So you’re right, there’s no counterpart story next time.

— That would make me expect it to be something completely different.

Ryukishi: If I had to name a paired chapter no matter what, this would be the solution to Himatsubushi-hen. Rika once said Akasaka, “I will definitely be killed in 1983”. “I don’t want to die, I just want to live a happy life…” she said. So what is the solution to that?! The direction and target that needed in order for Rika to be happy, to go through 1983, should have been somewhat clear this time. I think this is exactly what she meant, when he said at the end of Minagoroshi-hen, “I’m trying to imagine how I could have made the world a better place”. How can they become happy? Finally, the answer to Rika’s words in Himatsubushi-hen is going to be revealed… Maybe *laughs* It’s going to go in that direction, being entertainment in nature, while having some preachiness as a hidden flavor, and I hope that those who play the game will genuinely enjoy it.

— Thank you. Hmmm. If we ask you too much about the next chapter, both we and the audience might regret it, but what is your next work’s point of view?

Ryukishi: There are many. I can’t tell you from whose point of view it will be. This time, it’s more like an omnibus, where the story changes from one person’s point of view to another, collecting the thoughts and feelings of many different people, until it finally comes together in June of 1983. I can’t explain it very well right now. I’m still trying to figure out the structure. One of the themes of the story is that strong will leads to firm destiny, and the fact that the tragedy happens every time means that the person who tries to cause it has such a strong determination. So Rika needs more than just a determination to survive. There are many people’s thoughts and feelings. The bad guys have feelings too. All the thoughts come together to see who’s thoughts are the strongest!! And whoever is the most determined and has the best communication skills wins. Since this is a story on a game board, the roles of the pieces and the structure of the game version of each character have already been shown. Then the final game begins. Who will win this time? There was a thread on our forum about “How can we make it better?”, and this is the game about that. However, the “battle” in the world of Higurashi is not something where the result is achieved by arm strength, as I have said many times before. You’ll need knowledge, wisdom, and charisma. In the midst of all this, Keiichi is becoming more and more of a hero, he is developing charisma, he is gaining the strongest ability in that world which is to be able to overcome anything. It could be the ability to debate with others, the ability to unify people’s thoughts, or the agitation ability to get people excited. The battles in that world are settled by talking to each other in a very cultural way. People with good intuition may already realize that physically killing □□ won’t solve anything. Some of the more interesting theories say that □□ is also just a victim. That’s why we can say that the next chapter is really the solution to everything, and a confrontation with the enemy that is keeping Rika trapped in 1983. Now is the time to break through the wall of the labyrinth called 1983. And that’s the way summer is going to be. We can finish the goal now, can’t we?

*Everyone laughs*

Ryukishi: The piece named Rika in this board game is finally reaching the goal. But it’s so hard… If you don’t get it just right, you won’t be able to reach the goal and you’ll end up bouncing back, and one step ahead of the goal is the start. Next time is the last one! I think that’s all I can say. The curtain is finally coming down on Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, a story filled with joy, anger, sorrow, and many other things. Please look forward to it.

— Finally, as a side note, can you tell us what you are going to do after the next chapter?

Ryukishi: What should I make next? Well, I’m not sure. Well, for now, I’d like to finish “Higurashi” this summer and make a bonus disc in the winter. I’d like to make it with one kanji character, “Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Something” and it to be something like “Rika-chan massacre chapter” (Rika-chan Daigyakusatsu-hen). I’d like to take a break there without rushing unnecessarily. However, it is our purpose in life to always make a pilgrimage to that place. Like, if you don’t have a new product, you shouldn’t go in there *laughs*

— I will look forward to it. Thank you very much again.

Sources

• Interview on Toranoana website via Internet Archive: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4
• Interview on Seikaisha's website
• English translation by rockmor